So obviously you have life experiences.
Can I ask how long you were in prison
for?
>> So I served a 9-year prison sentence. So
I spent 4 and a half years in prison.
>> Right. And what do you think of these
policies that are in the papers today?
So we've got judges to be able to ban
criminals from football matches, pubs,
and concerts. So, this is about the
greater use of banning orders applying
to convicts on probation, having been
released from prison and those handed
non-custodial sentences such as
community orders. Do you think, look,
people have served their time in prison,
this seems a bit unfair and punitive, or
do you think it's a good idea?
>> Uh, do you know it? It all depends on
what crime they commit, doesn't it? It's
all well and good. You know, if it was a
guy who's done domestic violence, he's
banned from all of them, but he can be
in a in a property on his own with
another woman. So, it's sort of it
really depends on obviously if someone's
drunk and had a fight in a nightclub.
Yeah, it makes sense really, doesn't it?
And it's um drug dealing, there sort of
places where people would um do that
like at street level. So, it it's it's a
massive umbrella and the things I was
looking into today after reading that,
it's just so vague. It's, you know,
they're talking about a thousand
prisoners get released a month who are
homeless and then there's eight and a
half million pounds getting put into
that and then it's uh700 million getting
put into probation. But what it doesn't
say in that article is that there's 7
billion pound from 2004 to 2028 building
free new prisons. So they're clearly
putting more money into building prisons
than they are rehabilitation. and and
they got their evidence from that. The
guy had visited um where was it? He said
he visited Texas where they still got
the death penalty. So why not go to
>> Well, it's going to be they're going to
be introducing a Texas inspired system
whereby inmates can earn early release
as part of an attempt to avert another
prison crisis. And they're also going to
be abolishing uh most short sentences as
well. I mean what most short prison
sentences are going to be abolished.
What do you think about that? or yours
was obviously a fairly lengthy sentence.
Do you think it's
>> a sort of waste of time to have people
in prison for a short time? A waste of
time?
>> Yeah, because it does become a conveyor
belt and I think I've always said
because I spent a long period of time in
prison. It was the first time I was ever
arrested and um I feel like so much
happened like my children grew up. I
lost my brother. I wasn't allowed to go
to his funeral where so much happened in
that period of time. That was one of the
reasons, you know, you wouldn't commit
crime again. You know, I was in prison
for 4 and a half years and I can
guarantee there's probably a prisoner
who done that amount of time but just
went out for a month and come back.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I think it would but then they need
to be m managed, don't they? And there
isn't enough money in probation to do
that. So what is it going to give people
um car plants to just go and commit
crime where they know they're going to
get 12 months or is it going to stop
it's only going to stop the prisons from
overcrowding, isn't it really? It's not
going to stop crime. I think
>> that's in terms of proper
rehabilitation. Um you're obviously
you've you've come out of prison and
you're now doing charity walks and
you're an anti-rime advocate and so on.
So in a way prison you might say has
worked for you. What do you think needs
to happen in the system in general for
more people for more success stories
such as yourself?
>> Well, do you know what I think when I
got released from prison you can you can
sort of lie to the bation if you really
want to. You could say is everything
going fine? Yes, everything's going
fine. and my probation officer was off
twice with leave and then he he actually
left probation under I think he had a
breakdown. But I think that um I it's
some sort of money saving thing so
prisoners can come out and get a car,
get somewhere to live. I was fortunate I
had family, but if people are coming out
a thousand people a month are coming out
homeless, what do you expect them to do?
They're going to recommit crime.
So if if there was some sort of
better management if they just spent six
billion on prisons and put another
billion into probation, they could
probably employ more people to sort of
manage these a bit better.
>> I mean, I don't know why the prison
system can't won't work more handinand
glove with companies like the brilliant
Timsons that obviously do amazing things
by employing
former prisoners. They're saying that
Gregs are getting involved and a few
other chains are getting involved in
giving prisoners work. But
a lot of these prisoners, this is going
to sound really ungrateful. A lot of
these people don't want to go and work
in Gregs and Simpsons. So it's
>> because they can earn more through
crime.
>> Well, you've got that as well. Yeah. And
and I can imagine that um cuz I would
say majority of the prison population
that I met and had come across were all
financial. There is obviously people
there not but it was either robbery,
drugs and things like that. Mine was a
drug um case as well. So I'm only
talking from my own personal experience.
They um there was everybody was just I
want to get out. I want to see my kids.
There wasn't really talking about
getting a job and I was on remand for a
long time cuz my case was quite um
lengthy as in the remand period and I
wasn't allowed to do a course because
they said you might get not guilty and
we don't want to put the funding into
it. I was on remand for like 11 months.
So I wasn't actually
>> but it's understanding if they put money
into me doing a course and I get
released.
>> Right.
>> So it was really it's re it's a real I
can't explain it without you know it's
easy for me to talk about it. I've been
there but every case is so different.
Even in my case there was other
co-conspirators. All of us were just so
different. Our prison times and
>> it's a real trick. need essentially more
of an emphasis on the rehabilitation.
But you think overall maybe the
abolishing the short sentences is
probably quite a good thing.
>> I think it is because the short
sentences if you do something really
really bad you're going to go into
prison for a long time and I know short
sentences are doing really bad but
they're they're making it sound like you
know drug dealers are murderers.
>> For lots it's it's it's essentially an
apprenticeship for further crime isn't
it? because they learn from other people
in prison. And it's Yeah.
>> I always joke about I had phone calls
when I got out of prison from old prison
friends that I, you know, you don't
speak to when you leave offering you
criminal jobs and you're just like, "No,
my family would kill me."
>> Crazy. Dogs and